Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U Community

06/07/2016 8:44 PM ·Spoilers

Open Closed

Question

SSB4 Canonical Power Tiers: Part 2

This is a continuation of the discussion post I started a few days ago in which we tried to rank the characters in SSB4 in a tier list based on their canonical strength and abilities (this is NOT a tier list about competitive viability). We ran out of posts since we hit 100, so I'm making a new post to continue the discussion.

Yeahs5

Comment100

Played

Comment

This post has no comments.

Bowser has died in New Super Mario Bros.; his flesh was seared off his bones. You clearly see that Bowser is killable through conventional means in some games and can tank a black hole in others. This is why rating characters from more cartoony franchises is so hard; they're very inconsistent. Bowser IN GENERAL isn't terribly impressive imo. In most games he can be killed with fireballs or lava.

Yeahs1

Played

In 64 you defeat him by throwing him into bombs a few times. In the original SMB you could hit him with a few fireballs from the Fire Flower or simply dunk him in lava. You're cherry-picking his best showing of durability, but neglecting to mention all the other instances where he dies through means other characters can easily exploit. Samus, Kirby, etc could all kill Bowser in most games.

Yeahs1

Played

that's one example out of hundreds of times he's been dumped in and never felt a thing.even if you use that he's still not dead and persists in an immortal skeliton form. I can name tons of examples of your top tiers looking pathetic too.

Yeahs1

Played

As for Palutena, it's implied she can become gigantic like all the others gods in Uprising. She showcases actual combat skills when the Chaos Kin forces Pit to fight her. She has a beam-based weapon she uses on the Hewdraw if you take too long to kill it (Pit has a 5 minute time limit for flight; to keep the battle within that limit she'll intervene by killing it in 1 shot).

Yeahs1

Played

and how can you say i'm cherry picking when you completley change olimars size and use flavor text for pokemon who never come even close to that in game.

Yeahs0

Played

While that's not necessarily a ton to go on, it's far more than what Rosalina has demonstrated. Her only combat feats are in 3D World, and she's basically comparable to Mario. By that logic, Peach should be considered "Very OP" too, since she also is comparable to Mario in that game. I'm not convinced that Rosalina is on the same level as Samus or Kirby in terms of raw destructive power.

Yeahs1

Played

Name instances where Mewtwo, Cloud, Sonic, or Bayonetta were ever killed/defeated by such rudimentary means. I just gave you 2 clear examples of Bowser dying to fire. He loses to bombs in 64. He was defeated through conventional means in SMB3 and SM World as well. I don't see how this is even a debate; Bowser is usually shown to be defeated by conventional means.

Yeahs1

Played

every version of megaman can be killed by thumbtaks, and he can only shoot in one direction. Sonic gets killed by motobugs, Eggeman's slow wreckingball and drill, getting kneedeep in water, or the slowest mov8ng energy balls around. Link can be taken down by small birds, bats and Rats.Mewtwo can be hurt by any pokemon and never uses his powers on any trainers.

Yeahs0

Played

Flavor text is canon; it's clearly in the games. A turn-based RPG obviously is going to be limited in how it can demonstrate power, speed and durability, so Pokedex entries are clear pieces of exposition to inform the player on just how powerful these creatures are. Even if you don't go by that, Pikachu can literally make lightning rain from the sky, create afterimages, & more. How is that not OP?

Yeahs1

Played

Super Sonic isn't all you say he is ether he still dies to pits, drowning, being crushed, falling into lava, in unleashed Eggman can trap him and in that same game sonic can't even hit a small boulder without losing rings, still loses power when time is frozen, plus in Generation Super Sonic super fast and dosn't last ling enough to be of use.

Yeahs0

Played

Those feats you listed were purely gameplay mechanics, not canonical demonstrations of power. By that logic, Mario dies to a Goomba or Koopa all the time. When I say that Sonic is OP, it's because he has canonical feats showing this; Super Sonic is consistently shown in every game to be invulnerable. It's not a 1-time thing, but every single game he appears in.

Yeahs2

Played

As for Mewtwo, he was only damaged by Mew; that's it. I thought I already established earlier that the Mewtwo in SSB4 is clearly supposed to be from the movies. He laughs in his taunt and actually speaks lines of dialogue in the Japanese version. If you watch Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo's Revenge you'll see what I'm talking about.

Yeahs1

Played

I just listed how in Unleashed he takes damage from small rocks of all things. And the reason you discount Mario's and Bowser's feats is because they are in story cutscenes/cartoony. you can't just acknoledge things when you want to.

Yeahs0

Played

This is an disscussion of CANON and both Smash and the anime are noncanon. plus in one movie Pikachu destroys a clone of both Mew and Mewtwo in one attack at the same time.

Yeahs0

Played

Bayonetta getting hit by anything while you're playing is wrong because she doesn't get touched almost whole games... also dmc dying from some demons is wrong dante is overcome those attacks.

Yeahs0

Played

No, I discount Bowser's feats because they're laughable inconsistent. You argue Bowser can tank a black hole, but in the vast majority of his appearances he loses to fire, bombs, etc. I discount inconsistencies; I don't acknowledge feats that are outliers or 1-time instances. Mario picking up a castle for example is a 1-time feat; Mario is never shown to be that strong in any other game.

Yeahs0

Played

and Mario lifting a castle surviving a black hole or Bowser making said black hole pulling around islands and surviving falling into a small sun no matter how cartoony the presentation still happened and is 100% canon.

Yeahs0

Played

Oh my, it seems we're almost at the cap for this discussion again. Should I make a 3rd discussion post for this? Would you like to continue this conversation further? I've enjoyed our discussion thus far and would like to thank everyone that participated. Give this comment a "Yeah!" if you want me to make a Part III to this discussion.

Yeahs3

Played

why not..

Yeahs0

Played

Bowser never dies in any game except that one exception. in mario one he falls into lava and survives in mario 3 he fall 1000ft and survives, in world he losses control of his clown copter and fall from his castle and survives. in 64 he is slammed face first into 5 spikey higly explosive mines and survives, in mario sunshine he falls from the sky while RELAXING IN ACID and isn't even scratched.

Yeahs0

Played

Add a Comment

You must sign in to post a comment.

Sign in using a Nintendo Network ID to connect to users around the world by writing posts and comments and by giving Yeahs to other people's posts. You can create a Nintendo Network ID using your Wii U console or your system in the Nintendo 3DS family.

Use of Miiverse Details about Miiverse

Report Violation to Miiverse Administrators

You are about to report a post with content which violates the Miiverse Code of Conduct. This report will be sent to Nintendo's Miiverse administrators and not to the creator of the post.

Report Violation to Miiverse Administrators

You cannot report posts made automatically by a software title.

Edit Post

Embed this post on a website.

To embed this post on a website, copy the code below. Note that the design and content of the embedded post may change at any time.

<div class="miiverse-post" lang="en" data-miiverse-cite="https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADV0Z5PtUc0g" data-miiverse-embedded-version="1"><noscript>You must have JavaScript enabled on your device to view Miiverse posts that have been embedded in a website. <a class="miiverse-post-link" href="https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADV0Z5PtUc0g">View post in Miiverse.</a></noscript></div><script async src="https://miiverse.nintendo.net/js/embedded.min.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Share this Post

Comment

Add a Comment

Report Violation to Miiverse Administrators

Report Violation to Miiverse Administrators

Edit Post

Embed this post on a website.