Pokémon Sun & Moon Community

LizREVENGINGROXFORD

07/12/2017 9:45 PM ·Spoilers

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Skill and Luck.

I think Pokemon balances this out pretty well to be honest and despite what some* may say, luck is just as crucial as skill, Pokemon is a game with neutral luck and skill levels, one doesn't trump the other. I'd like to hear more thoughts on the matter.

Yeahs1

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Yeah, I'm not saying reading your opponent doesn't take skill, but there's only so far you can do. Most players don't need to do that to win though, how many times have you decided a gameplan from team preview which consists of a few steps, and had misplays matter? unless you're switching in Greninja's to Tapu Lele's, I don't think it's that crucial…

Yeahs0

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It's just kind of wishy-washy, especially when it comes down to lower level players with abstract teams and little play co-ordination, almost every good player still messes up and reading goes out the window. I've never played poker so I probably shouldn't have said anything really. •~•"

Yeahs0

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Well it's just called holding an L and moving on. I don't think it's a bad thing at all that a low level player can potentially beat a pro, that level of uncertainty keeps things interesting.

Yeahs2

I agree on the fact that it keeps the game interesting, but to me these events show that skill in battle just has a low ceiling if this kind of thing happens as often as it does. I think in Gen IV and below it was different though, there was no team preview so stuff like scouting was a thing and defencive play wasn't so easy without stuff like Magic Bounce/Guard, Prankster, Unaware, and the like.

Yeahs0

Played

Competitive battling was a lot simpler back then, nowadays you gotta look out for EVERYTHING and honestly I prefer it that way, keeps things always changing, sure there are the popular ways to play like not running gimmicky sets or just using traditional stuff but incorporating more zany styles of play make it fun.

Yeahs0

Let's look at why Smogon fails, enforcing a more skill based mentality onto a luck/skill game doesn't work because then egos are gonna start showing up and creating a toxic environment of "I'm better than you", that's kind of why items are a thing in Smash bros., if anything the luck makes up for lack of skill.

Yeahs0

I agree but not by much. If it weren't for Z-moves and Mega Evolution. Now, Smogon is pretty much a failure to me too. The game's clearly not built to be competitive in that sense, and I absolutely despise the toxicity that's come about. It's why I don't play stuff like Showdown or For Glory anymore.

Yeahs0

Played

It just detracts from being fun if you show up to a battle with anything you favour (within rules of course) and people talk smack or just insult you (even when you beat them anyway), or disconnect urgh.

Yeahs0

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That and Smogon is a super outdated format, it got big around gen 4 and they still think it's gen 4 with their battling, set up rocks and then play standard.

Yeahs1

To be fair, back then it was somewhat justified, mainly just because everyone deemed Breloom and Garchomp broken or something. But now the game's developed to the point where you can pretty much prepare for everything without too much inconvenience, and even if there is, they justify using Rapid Spin and Defog for the very clearly overcentralising Stealth Rock.

Yeahs0

Played

I think Stealth Rocks is too powerful, yeah it has counters but every other external buff has a timer, weather lasts five turns, barriers last 5 turns, terrain lasts five turns, entry hazards are the only thing that last forever until they are dealt with, I don't get why they can't have a timer like everything else.

Yeahs1

The garbage excuse is "they rocks, how do they disappear?" How does a cat mate with a whale? How can a 10 year old go on an adventure by themselves surrounded by dangerous creatures, it's a video game, who cares how they disappear, HOW DOES FOG GET RID OF ROCKS?!?!?!

Yeahs1

If they just make entry hazards last 5 turns then everything will be fine, it would certainly buff a lot of pokemon and buff some sets.

Yeahs1

Yeah, Stealth Rock is clearly something they've got a double standard for. Like that Baton Pass thing a while back, besides the Pokémon that naturally run Haze, they don't want to run the move outside of that to deal with it so they ban it. There were more answers for it too, Whirlwind and Roar, Trick Room, Taunt, Encore and just offencive pressure. But Stealth Rock isn't as chaotic.

Yeahs0

Played

It's sad because so many Pokémon are put into the "useless" category based on Stealth Rock alone, and now the Pokémon Company themselves are using it as an excuse to justify making obscenely powerful things like CharizardX.

Yeahs0

Played

It feels like Smogon are going out there way to make the game ideal for them, but disregarding the basic design or other Pokémon. A Pokémon like Vivillon's strength is to spam Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance, with its answers being heavy resists, Overcoat and Sap Sipper users, the wise use of Safety Goggles, and Stealth Rock. Now it just gets chucked under a bus because it can't abuse its strength.

Yeahs0

Played

But Smogon while factoring in Sleep Clause which isn't really necessary anymore and can easily be shutdown with smart team composition, still keep it in action despite Stealth Rock having no restriction because of this double standard which anybody tries to argue is not broken because "get gud". Misty and Electric Terrain ruins Sleep too, just forgot.

Yeahs0

Played

Right, the things Smogon cry about are things that get nerfed every generation like evasion and sleep, nowhere near as busted as they were in gen 1, and sure stealth rocks aren't as chaotic but with the game requiring match ups and switching to gain an advantage, stealth rocks just feels like punishment for being the better player.

Yeahs0

Say your opponent uses Earthquake and you switch into a flying type to avoid damage, good play but you're punished because of something that you can't deal with, I get that it's supposed to stop constant switching but constantly switching is the sign of a bad player.

Yeahs0

And it doesn't matter how much damage they do, sturdy pokemon can't thrive because of 1 point of damage, focus sash sets are useless and the stuff that's 4 times weak to it are incredibly crippled, I don't even get how Charizard is still relevant nowadays.

Yeahs0

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